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mach1 08-02-2009 04:33 AM

I need coil help (moved)
 
ok i got a question,on my 1999 mach1 700 i can ride it for a bout 20 minutes,and all the gauges,lights,hand thumb warmers just die,it usually does this when i use the hand and thumb warmers. would that be a bad voltage regulator,or ground or what.

OCR 08-03-2009 08:34 AM

Do the lights and gauges come back on when you turn them off?

mach1 08-03-2009 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCR (Post 77411)
Do the lights and gauges come back on when you turn them off?

nope it will if it sits for a few hours

OCR 08-03-2009 02:25 PM

Next time try it without turning them on and see if the problem is still there, that will tell you that it is probably the regulator.

mach1 08-03-2009 02:30 PM

i can run it all day and dont have a problem until i use any of the accessories,helmet,hand and thumb warmer.

Triple650indy 08-03-2009 02:44 PM

Well the easy way to diagnose it is to measure the input and output voltage on the regulator when its working, and when its not working. That will be a definite test. If you have voltage going in when its failed and nothing coming out then change it. If you have no voltage going in when you are failed you need to look deeper at your stator.

OCR 08-03-2009 02:54 PM

Too much load on the system and it will overheat and shut down.
Check the amp rating of the stator and check your total draw with everything on.
You may have to upgrade the light coil.

Triple650indy 08-03-2009 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCR (Post 77454)
Too much load on the system and it will overheat and shut down.
Check the amp rating of the stator and check your total draw with everything on.
You may have to upgrade the light coil.

How would it shut down and start back up, because I checked and sled doesn't have a circuit breaker it only has a fuse.

mach1 08-03-2009 03:50 PM

ok i just checked my manual for it and the lighting coil puts out 290 watts,now i just got to figure out how much the accessories are drawing

OCR 08-03-2009 05:25 PM

Over heating the coils can cause them to shut down until cooled off.
Should be enough amps, might be a short somewhere.

Triple650indy 08-03-2009 07:03 PM

Sorry bud, coils don't work like that.

OCR 08-04-2009 10:42 AM

Actually they can.

Triple650indy 08-04-2009 11:14 AM

Dude I work with these things on a daily basis, went to college for this stuff. I get paid to diagnose electronic equipment. And never, never, have I seen a coil exhibit a condition you are discussing. Coils suffer two failures, an open and a short. A short is diagnosed with a simple ohmmeter which can determine how much of the coil has been compromised. An open is a death sentence for a coil, aka won't work. A coil that is being loaded down with too much current will either, short out due to the heat melting away the coating or simply open at a hot spot in the wire. So would you like to explain how your theory works so I can become dumber for even letting you specualate on the subject?

Ibreakstuff 08-04-2009 12:25 PM

I moderated. Woot.

Vertical_Escape 08-04-2009 12:39 PM

Well done IBS .........

OCR 08-04-2009 02:14 PM

Come on, you can have a heat short that goes away when the unit cools down.
I have worked with these things all my life and have seen this happen frequently.

Vertical_Escape 08-04-2009 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCR (Post 77573)
Come on, you can have a heat short that goes away when the unit cools down.
I have worked with these things all my life and have seen this happen frequently.

I've never seen it on a sled, but the older model cars I have seen it on. Heat up, car quit. Cool down, car run.

OCR 08-04-2009 02:39 PM

Same on sleds too, I have had them do this before.
Test the coil cold and it's ok, test it hot and it shows a short.

Triple650indy 08-04-2009 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCR (Post 77573)
Come on, you can have a heat short that goes away when the unit cools down.
I have worked with these things all my life and have seen this happen frequently.

I got to hear an explanation behind this because each strand is individually insulated and usually covered in resin. And with the coils being wound by machines these days there is very little issue with vibration rubbing away insulation. That is the only way you could possibly argue a "heat short." They may have happened back on your mid-1980's vehicles and shit but they don't happen anymore.

Vertical_Escape 08-04-2009 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vertical_Escape (Post 77577)
I've never seen it on a sled, but the older model cars I have seen it on. Heat up, car quit. Cool down, car run.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple650indy (Post 77579)
I got to hear an explanation behind this because each strand is individually insulated and usually covered in resin. And with the coils being wound by machines these days there is very little issue with vibration rubbing away insulation. That is the only way you could possibly argue a "heat short." They may have happened back on your mid-1980's vehicles and shit but they don't happen anymore.

You perhaps noticed, that's exactly what I stated. Didn't anywhere mention newer, computerized vehicles.......

Triple650indy 08-04-2009 04:04 PM

There are still windings in the alternators, in the hall effect sensors on your wheel speed sensors and even in the control boxes for your new computerized cars. Anything analog most likely has one. They are one of the most common component around yet. And you don't see your devices failing as described do you? Its like saying the toaster failed because the small wires that run through there are having a heat short, but wait an hour and then make toast... ROFL.

blue avenger 08-05-2009 08:59 PM

So the laws of physics have now changed, heat dose not increase resistance, lowering the voltage output?

Triple650indy 08-06-2009 07:35 AM

Heat does increase the resistance but having done labs in college on coils of an alternator with heat applied and having seen the resistance change a few ohms I don't think unless you were running on the harry edge would this happen. And besides a coil wouldn't just stop producing current because it got hot and increased resistance a few ohms, for the coil in your senario to stop producing current you would need infinite resistance or just a short. Listen I'm not saying a coil doesn't short or open up, what I'm saying is that its not very probable. So why not troubleshoot the more probable cause before you go off and try and find something that happens 1/100 times?

OCR 08-06-2009 07:46 AM

Because it does happen, and must not be ruled out as a cause.
When all other components test OK and you still have a problem, apply Occam's Razor.

Triple650indy 08-06-2009 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCR (Post 77671)
Because it does happen, and must not be ruled out as a cause.
When all other components test OK and you still have a problem, apply Occam's Razor.

Yes, but the point is to start easy and work to the 1/100 shit because normally coils last the life of the sled and then some. So stop being a stubborn ass about this shit progress through a good troubleshooting process. I mean christ you're like a guy I used to work with, change out every obscure part for $3,000 and then find the lose wire. DUMBASS.


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