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old sleds, new fuel

Tuning/Tech/Articles

 
 
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  #1  
Old 12-22-2007
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Default old sleds, new fuel

fuel quality over the last 10 years has changed a lot. in a lot of states we now have 10% ethonal. or basically 10%alcohol in the gas. sleds built 10 years ago require 88 octane but back then it had no ethonal. and fuel had a longer storage life. there are a lot of sleds that are running 87 octane fuel and are popping holes in the piston tops.
two things are going on. the newer fuel even though its close to 88 octane has the ethonal in it. alcohol burns at a different rate than standard gas. it also lowers the octane of gas. so the alcohol in the gas is causing enough detonation to pop the hole in the piston.
the other thing going on is that the ethonal is displacing gas, making the fuel leaner than straight gas, now most sleds stock were jetted fat. but the gas in the last couple years has taken all that fat out of jetting. so now even if you have stock jets you are basically jetted for 10+ zero.
you have to either run 92 octane or jet up 1-2 sizes on older sleds to protect themselves. especially if you are going to be adding pipes or aftermarket heads.
we are going through the same thing that the muscle cars went through when lead was taken out of fuel. it used to be that lead could help the valves. but once lead was taken out all of them cars eventually started burning valves. the cure was to buy lead additive for you gas tank all the time, or pay to have hardened seats put in. we are in the same boat now, we have to keep an eye on plugs with older sleds and adjust accordingly.

basically just a heads up to check plugs and run premium on older sleds.
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  #2  
Old 12-24-2007
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I wish they would get rid of Ethenol, or at least give us a choice again.

I do buy, "regular" gas, but thats almost $4 a gallon, and have to drive across town to get it, cant find it in most areas.

That ethenol sure seems to be hard on the old cabs, I heard you better run your sleds often, because the Ethenol breacks down so fast, then it really screws up stuff, the old gas could sit for year or two, in some cases.

Ethenol is a Oxydiser, Another reason Ethenol is bad.
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  #3  
Old 12-24-2007
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yeah it is really all the additives that make the fuel "oxiyganated" that make it hard on sled, you can get a can of octane 104 and put a splash in each tank, the difference here is about 30 cents a gallon or 4 dollars per tank. if you go through 30 tanks a season that is a lot of miles, but only 120 dollars for safety, when we have only had snow for a couple weeks and 2 motors already went down.
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in a time of deciet telling the truth is a revolutionary act. george orwell.

aint no body ripin like me. M to the a-d-c-o-w. rock it hard for my fly ladies. I rock it yes in deed. homies still roll with me. money dont change me


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  #4  
Old 12-25-2007
ACEXCR
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At alot of gas stations in northern WI. the regular and midgrade are labled Enthanol. The premium is not. I always run premium. For the most part, the mid-grade gasoline doesn't exist in an underground take. Usually gas stations have a mixer the combines 50% regular and 50% premium to achieve the mid grade.

Here is WI, they tried putting a law into affect that required Ethanol in gasoline statewide. It failed.
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  #5  
Old 10-13-2008
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so what about sleds over 30 years,with the old style carbs,like tiltson ,walboro, i didnt even think there was jets in them.
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  #6  
Old 10-13-2008
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they had a screw on top. one for idle mixture and one for wide open throttle.
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in a time of deciet telling the truth is a revolutionary act. george orwell.

aint no body ripin like me. M to the a-d-c-o-w. rock it hard for my fly ladies. I rock it yes in deed. homies still roll with me. money dont change me


nothing goes like 3 holes.

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  #7  
Old 10-13-2008
Polaris1man
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John, it was my understanding that the Octane Boost/fuel additive was good for maybe a 2 point boost in the octane rating at best on smaller amounts of fuel?? And the Qxygenated Gas was a better 92 octane Gas versus the Ethanol Gas?
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  #8  
Old 10-13-2008
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brianna had a bunch of info on the additive's i thought? something like the octane 104 stuff if you mixed it according to the directions it would only raise the gas 1 point at the most.

not sure which is better, all I know is that the last couple years i have seen more sleds with close to stock jetting burning down from lean burn. so i talked to some of the "big" shops about my theory and this is what they thought as well.
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nothing goes like 3 holes.

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  #9  
Old 10-26-2008
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Lets get rid of EthaNO.

I was buying $$$$gas for my sleds, but it looks the same as the other stuff. now I add lead for the Convertible.

not sure whats best for my sleds yet.
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  #10  
Old 10-27-2008
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non oxygenated, and some race fuel to mix with
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  #11  
Old 10-27-2008
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it sounds spendy, but i bet a splash of some vp fuel in the tank before you leave home wouldnt be a bad idea. that way if you get to an area where the fuel might be bad the race gas will help out.
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If the boner police are here I need a lawyer.

in a time of deciet telling the truth is a revolutionary act. george orwell.

aint no body ripin like me. M to the a-d-c-o-w. rock it hard for my fly ladies. I rock it yes in deed. homies still roll with me. money dont change me


nothing goes like 3 holes.

BRTECH HOODS
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  #12  
Old 10-28-2008
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yep, and John, did check with a guy who races dirt track up here, and the Octane Boost 104 is a "myth" at best. One point on the octane rating with 12 0unces to 2 gallons of Gas!!! It is actually better to use a can of carb cleaner/fuel injector which eliminates the Water in fuel versus Octane 104. A quart bottle of VP104 will definitely save ya'll who need a solid 92 rating at the pumps on 5 gallons
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  #13  
Old 10-28-2008
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I found this some time back, saved it for later use:

Quote:
Formula #1 - Toluene
R+M/2.........114
Cost...........$2.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.2 Octane
20%...........96.4 Octane
30%...........98.6 Octane
Notes: Common ingredient in Octane Boosters in a can. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, i.e. from 92 to 92.3. Often costs $3-5 for 12-16 ounces, when it can be purchased for less than $3/gal at chemical supply houses or paint stores.

Formula #2 - Xylene
R+M/2.........117
Cost...........$2.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.5 Octane
20%...........97.0 Octane
30%...........99.5 Octane
Notes: Similar to Toluene. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, i.e. from 92 to 92.3. Usually mixed with Toluene and advertised as *race formula*.

Formula #3 - Methyl-tertiary-butyl-ether (MTBE)
R+M/2.........118
Cost...........$3.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.6 Octane
20%...........97.2 Octane
30%...........99.8 Octane
Notes: Oxygenate. Very common in octane booster products. Has lower BTU content than toluene or xylene, but oxygenate effect makes the gasoline burn better and produce more energy.

Formula #4 - Methanol or Ethanol
R+M/2.........101
Cost...........$0.60 - $1.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.3 Octane (Methanol)
10%...........94.7 Octane (Ethanol)
20%...........Not Recommended
Notes: Methanol is wood alcohol. Ethanol is grain alcohol and found in Gasohol in 10% ratios. Both alcohols are mildly corrosive and will eat gas tank linings, rubber and aluminum if used in excessive ratios. Main ingredient in "Gas Dryers", combine with water.

Formula #5 - Isopropyl Alcohol and Tertiary Butyl Alcohol
R+M/2.........101
Cost...........$0.60-$1.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.5 Octane
20%...........Not Recommended
30%...........Not Recommended

Notes: Similar to Methanol/Ethanol. Isopropyl Alcohol is simply rubbing alcohol.

Sample Mixture
To make your own octane booster, it is easiest to make up a large batch, and then bottle it up in "dosage-size" uses.
Below is the basic formula of one of the popular octane booster products. To make eight 16 ounce bottles (128 oz = 1 gal):

100 oz of toluene for octane boost
25 oz of mineral spirits (cleaning agent)
3 oz of transmission fluid (lubricating agent)
This product is advertised as "octane booster with cleaning agent *and* lubricating agent!". Diesel fuel or kerosene can be substituted for mineral spirits and light turbine oil can be substituted for transmission fluid. Color can be added with petroleum dyes.
I'd give credit to original author if I remembered who it was.

Presented for educational purposes only.
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  #14  
Old 02-17-2011
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I just run it normaly, never had any problems running the older sleds on it.
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  #15  
Old 02-18-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoskichimo View Post
I just run it normaly, never had any problems running the older sleds on it.
you do notice that there are many threads starting with.....O NO MY POLARIOUS BLEW......HELP, POLARIOUS PROBLEMS.....POLARIOUS NO RUN.....and so on and so on....these guys damage motors and jack around with jets and carbs like theres no tommorrow....i'm just wondering when their gonna get around to EFI and COMPUTERS so they don't have to start another O NO thread

i got many OLD SLEDS and just run PREMIUM with no troubles at all....but then again i leave them stock and dont modify them and cannibilize them

PS....MOTO.....CHEVRON with TECHNOLENE is by far SUPERIOR to any other gas....i always run that when available.....dunno what there sayin either about ETHANOL problems

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  #16  
Old 02-18-2011
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I like Chevron too, I tested some of their synthetic oil a while back and it passed every test with flying colors. Its kind of hard to find around my neck of the woods though. On a gas related note I have found the gas sold at Casey's stations to be of the lowest quality. Probably mostly corn syrup and water.
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  #17  
Old 02-18-2011
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Super America gas is bad too. They have good prices on Land O' Lakes milk though.

How did you deduce that Chevron oil was so great? What tangible results did you notice?
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  #18  
Old 02-18-2011
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I guess Casey's has pizza and it is pretty good if you are in the mood for it. As for the Chevron oil, first of all it was highly recommended on the oil forums, secondly the Subaru ran very nicely when it was in there (the Subaru however seems to run even better with O'rielly's synthetic in it), most importantly though was how the Chevron oil performed when used to burn a stump. Nearly smokeless and I felt it penetrated the stump very well and maintained an excellent level of film strength.
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  #19  
Old 02-18-2011
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Used Chevron works really well for burning stumps and other than that he has no conclusive evidence that it is any better than Tech 2000
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  #20  
Old 02-18-2011
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Cenex is another gas I try my best to pass on
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  #21  
Old 02-21-2011
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this why BALLER....the additive i said....you guys want i should come up there and slap some sense inta ya's.....TECHNOLINE MUTHAFACKERS....is there an ECHO in here.....AHAHHAHAHAHHAHAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techron

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevron_Corporation
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  #22  
Old 02-21-2011
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I for one have NEVER had an issue with Ethanol in anything I have ever run.... But then I never run on the razors edge of tune like so many do looking for that extra 1HP.... If you want more power get a bigger engine....
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  #23  
Old 02-22-2011
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the point of this thread wasnt to bash ethonal, it was that i was getting a run of older sleds that were jetted great for when they were new or the last time they were ran. then they run the new gas and are showing signs of lean burn.

a clarification is alcohol itself is higher octane, but takes more volume of gas to run.
oxy. fuel takes more volume as well.
so if the last time a sled was ran, or was brand new when fuel was non oxy and non ethonal its going to run real crisp or possibly lean on a great air day.
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If the boner police are here I need a lawyer.

in a time of deciet telling the truth is a revolutionary act. george orwell.

aint no body ripin like me. M to the a-d-c-o-w. rock it hard for my fly ladies. I rock it yes in deed. homies still roll with me. money dont change me


nothing goes like 3 holes.

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  #24  
Old 02-24-2011
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I was at the local O'Reilly's today to get some bitching new wiper blades and I saw that you can buy the additive technoline and add it to your own gas yourself. I thought that would be fun, but it was almost $11 for a thimble sized bottle, so I passed.
Madcow based on your last post what is your opinion of Shell gasoline also did you go to the union rally in Wisconsin to harass the governor? I got a few calls about it.
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Last edited by The Baller : 02-24-2011 at 09:25 PM. Reason: Harass Madcow
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  #25  
Old 02-24-2011
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Baller - you should go to WI to harass the gov. Why not? What else do you have to do. Plus then you could stop over and drink some beers or look at some stuff.
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