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Clutch help needed

Tuning

 
 
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  #1  
Old 12-06-2008
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Default Clutch help needed

Hey guys. New to the site and love it. I'm also new to sledding and picked up a 96 Ultra SKS. The sled is bone stock except for the PSI pipes and a 136" X 1.5" track.
My clutch engagement is about 3800 and my high RPMs are only about 7000 and should be higher. I've done the carbs completely, they're in sinc and adjusted properly. The motor runs good except for the high idle but that I can do easily enough.
I tore my secondary out today and disassembled it. I've got a red spring on the first hole and that little adjuster wheel on the outside of the clutch is at 3(whatever this is for is beyond me). My helix has a 36 stamped on the back side. The buttons look good.
My primary has a blue spring in it and I don't know the weights or any other info yet.

My question is this.....does this sound alright to you guys? If not can someone point me in the right direction as far as springs, weights and the hole placement of the spring. I'll be doing trail riding and ditch banging more than anything.
If this helps, I'm about 270 lbs and live at an elevation of about 1700ft.

Thanks boys for all your help.

Troy
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2008
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Good to have another triple owner aboard! Post a topic in the introductions and tell us about yourself. I am not knowledgeable on clutching, but somebody like Madcow will get here soon and help out.
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  #3  
Old 12-06-2008
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jason what does the storm engage and shift out at?

i wanna say the ultra should ramp out at 8700 rpm? and the secondary spring in #1 seems aweful low, i was thinking 2 or 3, and a dial? wouldn't happen to have a dail-a-spring would you?
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  #4  
Old 12-06-2008
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3800 engagement is low, you'll want to be around 4500 --> need a couple grams in the primary.

7K is way low, especially with the PSI's. 8700 is about right. Try hole #3.
If you have the dial-a-spring I am completely unfamiliar with it, take a pic and post it if you can?

Madcow will be here soon, when he sees "Clutch help needed" he runs as fast as when someone posts "I HAVE NAKED PICS OF RIHANNA"
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  #5  
Old 12-06-2008
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Oh, and welcome to the site BigThunder.
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  #6  
Old 12-06-2008
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wouldn't is the engagement is low he would need less weight on the primary? meaning too much weight for the spring?
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  #7  
Old 12-06-2008
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I forgot to add that the tag under the hood says it should high idle at about 8200rpm. Would moving the spring to hole 3 increase my engagement and high idle? And I think I found what the dial on the secondary clutch is for(is it for belt tension?)
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  #8  
Old 12-06-2008
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Quote:
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Oh, and welcome to the site BigThunder.
Thanks, glad to be here!
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  #9  
Old 12-06-2008
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can you post a picture of it? cause theoretically the secondary spring and helix should control belt tension.

i believe every hole on the helix is good for 200 rpm on shiftout? it's been quite a long time since i tuned a triple's clutching, so little rusty.

i know twins love weight on the primary and then spring and helix it accordingly to get desired shiftout. Which is only around 7900-8200. and i know triples will rev well above that.
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  #10  
Old 12-06-2008
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I'm sorry, MX is right. Need less weight in the primary or a heavier spring.

High idle at 8200? Holy crap...lol no way. Again, Madcow would be the pro with this and the pipes.
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  #11  
Old 12-06-2008
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Okay so looking at EPI, the stock springs for the 96 680 ultra are:
Primary: silver/gold or 125/280lb
Secondary: Red or approx 47/87 lb

dunno the weight or helix yet, but i'll keep looking
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  #12  
Old 12-06-2008
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looks like the helix should be in the ball park of a 40-40/34
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  #13  
Old 12-06-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MX86 View Post
looks like the helix should be in the ball park of a 40-40/34
How do I know what helix I have in the secondary? Like I said before, it has a "36" stamped into the casting on the back side but that is it as far as any kind of markings go.
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  #14  
Old 12-06-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MX86 View Post
Okay so looking at EPI, the stock springs for the 96 680 ultra are:
Primary: silver/gold or 125/280lb
Secondary: Red or approx 47/87 lb

dunno the weight or helix yet, but i'll keep looking
So if my primary has a blue spring in it then I'm assuming somebody has been in to it before. I've heard that I might be able to change weights without removing the clutch. Is this true? And if so...how?
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  #15  
Old 12-06-2008
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I'd hope someone was in it before, when they put the pipes on.

It is possible to get the weights out without removing the clutch, but it's a bit more difficult. You need to compress the clutch slightly to get the tension off the rollers, then take a small allen key (forgot the size offhand) and a box-end wrench to to get the pins out. Once the pins are out, the weight comes right out. You can compress the clutch slightly with a modified clutch bolt and some washers, or 2 wooden clamps. Right Rubi?
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  #16  
Old 12-06-2008
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I'd hope someone was in it before, when they put the pipes on.

It is possible to get the weights out without removing the clutch, but it's a bit more difficult. You need to compress the clutch slightly to get the tension off the rollers, then take a small allen key (forgot the size offhand) and a box-end wrench to to get the pins out. Once the pins are out, the weight comes right out. You can compress the clutch slightly with a modified clutch bolt and some washers, or 2 wooden clamps. Right Rubi?
Whats a guys chance of getting his fingers smashed all to fck doing it that way? Being a heavy duty mechanic, I'm kind of sick of saying %$#EV%%VR*%CR^&V because I just smashed them.
What does that "36" on my helix mean?

Last edited by bigthunder12 : 12-06-2008 at 06:11 PM.
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  #17  
Old 12-06-2008
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kinda depends on who made the helix. That could be like a straight 36 helix or could give you a dimension of a ramp angle. hard to tell.

and the odds of getting your fingers smashed to fuck greatly increase over if there had been no spring on it for resistance....
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  #18  
Old 12-07-2008
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the stock helix is a straight 36 with red spring, sounds like someone put on the pipes and didnt reclutch it. the pipes should wind out about 8800 rpm. engagement should be at 5 grand and warm idle at the 1500-2000 rpm area.

with the pipes you need to get lighter wieghts to help the motor rev up, then you need a stiffer spring and bigger helix to help it shift out.

if its a true factory sks the gearing should be about perfect with the pipes.

we can build a kit if you want to instead of chasing parts around, i only charge the price of the parts and whatever shipping is.


for changing wieghts, you can get a clutch clamp for 6 bucks or make one, or,use a big flat blade screw driver. remove the belt, push the screw driver between a weight and roller, now you can rotate the clutch to change the other weight. then move the screw driver to the next weight and change another weight.

a clutch clamp is a channel of steel, I made one out of 1" by 1/8" flat iron, make it 4.5" long, at one inch from each end put a 90 degree bend so you make a channel, then use a couple pry bars to pry the clutch closed and slip the clamp over the sheaves. this holds the clutch closed so you can change all 3 weights at once.
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Last edited by Madcow : 12-07-2008 at 09:58 AM.
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  #19  
Old 12-07-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madcow View Post
the stock helix is a straight 36 with red spring, sounds like someone put on the pipes and didnt reclutch it. the pipes should wind out about 8800 rpm. engagement should be at 5 grand and warm idle at the 1500-2000 rpm area.

with the pipes you need to get lighter wieghts to help the motor rev up, then you need a stiffer spring and bigger helix to help it shift out.

if its a true factory sks the gearing should be about perfect with the pipes.

we can build a kit if you want to instead of chasing parts around, i only charge the price of the parts and whatever shipping is.


for changing wieghts, you can get a clutch clamp for 6 bucks or make one, or,use a big flat blade screw driver. remove the belt, push the screw driver between a weight and roller, now you can rotate the clutch to change the other weight. then move the screw driver to the next weight and change another weight.

a clutch clamp is a channel of steel, I made one out of 1" by 1/8" flat iron, make it 4.5" long, at one inch from each end put a 90 degree bend so you make a channel, then use a couple pry bars to pry the clutch closed and slip the clamp over the sheaves. this holds the clutch closed so you can change all 3 weights at once.
Sounds good Madcow. Thanks for the info! How would I know if it is a "true sks"? I'm going by the sticker on the back that says snow king special. It had a 133.5" and I put the 136" on it. Would that much of a change effect my gearing? What would changing the spring hole in my secondary effect and what about that ring on the outside of the secondary?

Let me know what the cost of a kit would be.

Thanks again,
Troy

Last edited by bigthunder12 : 12-07-2008 at 11:52 AM.
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  #20  
Old 12-07-2008
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the track change will not affect the handling of the machine, not much of a change. the stiffer spring or more twist you put on the spring, ie: going to hole 3 instead of 1 will slow down the upshift and raise the wide open rpms, it will also let the machine backshift quicker.

stock primary spring on your sled is gold, someone might have tried a blue spring to help clutch it, but we dont know whos blue spring, color doesnt mean the same from company to company.

stock wieghts should say 10m on them.


you have a private message.
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nothing goes like 3 holes.

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  #21  
Old 12-07-2008
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Thanks Madcow. I read your PM and replied to it.
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  #22  
Old 12-07-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MX86 View Post
jason what does the storm engage and shift out at?

i wanna say the ultra should ramp out at 8700 rpm? and the secondary spring in #1 seems aweful low, i was thinking 2 or 3, and a dial? wouldn't happen to have a dail-a-spring would you?
Rode it today just to make sure....

She engages at around 3800 RPM. That is when I start to move, but if I hit 4700 RPM then BRAAAAAP!
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rihanna shut up and drive, I would split her in half as part of my equal opportunity bed.
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This forum is cheaper.
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  #23  
Old 12-07-2008
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yet again no pictures....
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  #24  
Old 12-07-2008
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I didnt see any pics of you riding around either.
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rihanna shut up and drive, I would split her in half as part of my equal opportunity bed.
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  #25  
Old 12-08-2008
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Rode it today just to make sure....

She engages at around 3800 RPM. That is when I start to move, but if I hit 4700 RPM then BRAAAAAP!
we need to fix that!! at 5000 she starts to move and if you hit it at 5 +grand its braaaaap!!

get the gears in yet?
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nothing goes like 3 holes.

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