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650 BB almost ready to run. I have a few questions.

Tuning

 
 
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  #1  
Old 12-31-2009
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Default 650 BB almost ready to run. I have a few questions.

The sled is a 85 Indy 600 with the 650 BB kit. Ported heads, pipes.....
I plan on running premium fuel mixed 50:1. Is that good?

The carbs that came on the sled are bored out, three different carbs, with big jets. I plan on using the stock 600 carbs I bought off EBAY but switching the jets out from the bored carbs. I dont know why there was three different carbs, is that common practice with race sleds?

Is running stock bore carbs ok for a ported bored out engine? (stock carbs with bigger jets)

Do they bore carbs to match cylinder porting?

I am ready to switch out the jets, install the carbs, pipes, fill the chaincase, anti-freeze, fresh mixed gas, new brake fluid, then run it. We finally have almost 4 inches of snow and Im sick of waiting for it! Time to ride!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #2  
Old 01-01-2010
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The gasil ratio is good...If you recently took the oil pump off make sure you plug the oil intake going into the carb...

Three different carbs have no idea...were the outsid two the same maybe hiding the bored out one??

I would wait for a carb specialist to answer the jetting Q...
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  #3  
Old 01-01-2010
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Run the stock carbs, run the bigger jets, watch your wash and plug color.
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  #4  
Old 01-02-2010
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Ok so I took it all apart and made a chart. Ill try to post it up on here ledgibly.

1. There are a couple differences in the bored carbs. I plan to use these jets but should the needle sleeves be all the same? Whats the difference in a 166 Q-0 and a 166 Q-4?

2. Why are the stock pilot jets bigger? (30 in bored and 40 in stock)

3. Also the biggest difference in the bored vs the stock carbs is the stock carbs have ball valves and the bored have the needle valves. Whats better to run? Ive never encountered ball valves.
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  #5  
Old 01-02-2010
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Also I may run 40:1 just because. Polaris oil, non synthetic.
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  #6  
Old 01-02-2010
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The info for the "stock", is that from the carbs you bought or from a Polaris manual?
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Old 01-02-2010
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Oh yeah those are the carbs I bought off ebay. The bored out carbs came on the sled. Notice the one Q-0 needle sleeve. Its got a 320 jet.

The middle is a Q-4 and has a 320 jet,

then the mag side has a Q-4 and a 370 jet.

So whats the Q-0 mean? Should I switch that out to a Q-4? Or maybe thats suppose to go with the 370 jet...

I assume the mags jetted at 370 because that cylinder runs hotter than the rest. Would that be an accurate guess?

Everything switched out of the bored carbs into the stock bore really well. I was stumped by the ball valves but the needle and seat fit there great. I think Id rather use them because its much more common.
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  #8  
Old 01-02-2010
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The reason that I asked is that those carbs may have been re-jetted.
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Old 01-02-2010
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The guy I bought them off said they were stock. I think Im going about this right. Just not sure about the needle sleeves and there role in the carbs. Any clue the difference in a 166 Q-0 and a 166 Q-4? What do they do? I know the main jets attach to the bottom of them.
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  #10  
Old 01-02-2010
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I got some setup info I can give you, dont know how much help it will be though because its from a different motor, all be it, it is 650 based though.

This is what I ran in my PSI motor. 750cc, ported, lots of compression. It may be too rich for you.


Mains Pilots Needles Needles Jets Slides
Mag 320 35 6F4 Q2 3.5
Center 320 35 6F4 Q2 3.5
PTO 320 35 6F4 Q2 3.5


I have setup papers for SLP 650 pipes somewhere, if you want that info let me know and I can find them.

Last edited by the_hog : 01-02-2010 at 09:50 PM.
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  #11  
Old 01-02-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanDamage007 View Post
The guy I bought them off said they were stock. I think Im going about this right. Just not sure about the needle sleeves and there role in the carbs. Any clue the difference in a 166 Q-0 and a 166 Q-4? What do they do? I know the main jets attach to the bottom of them.
Q-0 are two steps leaner than Q-4.

You have two different series needle jets in those carbs, the 166's are 47.3mm long and the 247's are 54.4mm long.


The needle jet is the main fuel passage to the main bore of the carb. Depending on the inside diameter of the needle jet, this will also affect the function of the needle. Needle jets and needles act together as the main system of controlling the amount of fuel which is drawn in mid-range 1/4-3/4 throttle.
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  #12  
Old 01-02-2010
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Thank you. I plan on using the 166 Q-4 sleeves. The 247 came on the carbs I bought from Ebay. Im using those carbs but switched the guts. So the Q-0 is leaner than the Q-4. Should I switch the Q-0 to a Q-4 so they all match?

Why would someone want the pto needle sleeve to be leaner than the other two? And the Mag has a 370 jet with is richer than the 320 right? This is staggered funny.

So would this make the pto lean, middle average between the two, and mag richer
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Old 01-02-2010
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The 650 info would probally help alot. This sleds has the 650 big bore kit. Check this picture on my next post. What pipes are these? I think they are either PSI or SLP. Not sure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by the_hog View Post
I got some setup info I can give you, dont know how much help it will be though because its from a different motor, all be it, it is 650 based though.

This is what I ran in my PSI motor. 750cc, ported, lots of compression. It may be too rich for you.


Mains Pilots Needles Needles Jets Slides
Mag 320 35 6F4 Q2 3.5
Center 320 35 6F4 Q2 3.5
PTO 320 35 6F4 Q2 3.5


I have setup papers for SLP 650 pipes somewhere, if you want that info let me know and I can find them.
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  #14  
Old 01-02-2010
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Default Heres what Im working with.

Heres a picture of the engine. I have the pipes in and the carbs on. Shes not too pretty yet, but its a good start. Ive learned alot on this project so far!! I am going to invest in the egt probes for my Aaen gauge. They are 50 buck a peice, ouch!! Itll be a few weeks, but I will get them. Its a vital peice of equipment on a sled like this huh?
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  #15  
Old 01-03-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanDamage007 View Post
Thank you. I plan on using the 166 Q-4 sleeves. The 247 came on the carbs I bought from Ebay. Im using those carbs but switched the guts. So the Q-0 is leaner than the Q-4. Should I switch the Q-0 to a Q-4 so they all match?

Why would someone want the pto needle sleeve to be leaner than the other two? And the Mag has a 370 jet with is richer than the 320 right? This is staggered funny.

So would this make the pto lean, middle average between the two, and mag richer
I would switch everything so it matches. I have ran many triples and never have I staggered jetting and I have never had a problem.

Yes the 370 is richer than the 320.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanDamage007 View Post
The 650 info would probally help alot. This sleds has the 650 big bore kit. Check this picture on my next post. What pipes are these? I think they are either PSI or SLP. Not sure.
I found my old SLP 650 pipe sheets this was there recommendations for jetting.

0-3000 feet, 0-20 degrees.

Pilot Jet 45
Slide 3.0 or 2.5
Needle 6DH4 e clip in 3 position (3rd position from the top)
Needle Jet Q2
Main Jet 300

These are just recommendations, being you have a big bore be very careful when trying new jetting. Be very careful and watch piston wash and check your plugs religiously, I dont want to see you burn her down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanDamage007 View Post
Heres a picture of the engine. I have the pipes in and the carbs on. Shes not too pretty yet, but its a good start. Ive learned alot on this project so far!! I am going to invest in the egt probes for my Aaen gauge. They are 50 buck a peice, ouch!! Itll be a few weeks, but I will get them. Its a vital peice of equipment on a sled like this huh?
I think those are early SLP pipes. Yes the EGT's are a vital piece of equipment, they are a huge aid for tuning.

Last edited by the_hog : 01-03-2010 at 12:14 AM.
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  #16  
Old 01-03-2010
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I have the clutching recommendations as well if you need them. Are there any markings/stampings on the heads or cyls? If there are we may be able to find out who did the big bore on it.
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  #17  
Old 01-03-2010
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Hmm not really any stamping. I think there is a series of dots marking the cylinders. . .. ... like that. I bought this with a burned out middle piston. I defently dont want that to happen again.

I will buy a Q-4 to match the others. I dont know why the pto would have a Q-0 It dosent make sense to me. All I can think is maybe it came with that carb, because that carb is a little different than the rest. Check this pic. These are the bored out carbs.

The Mag having the 370 jet might be ok, I understand they stagger them like that to cool that cylinder. Somehow more gas cools the cylinder... Seems like it would make it run hotter to me. Ill get a 320 just incase. Ill watch the piston wash and plug color like a hawk! If it looks black and wet on that cylinder I will pull out the 370 and go with a 320.

I should be able to see the piston wash by looking down thru the plug hole right?
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  #18  
Old 01-03-2010
the_hog
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Yes you should be able to see piston wash by looking down the plug hole.

With all the jets you have this is what I would run.

Mains 320
Pilots 40
Needle Jets Q-4
Needle 6DH4 (e-clip in middle position)

With this setup you should be plenty rich and you can work down from there. But as said before be careful and watch your plugs and piston wash like a hawk.
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  #19  
Old 01-03-2010
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Right on! Thank you. I will have to order a 320 and a Q-4. I will get on it. It sounds like a good setup that way. Staggering jets seems like it could be a bad bad thing. Confusing anyway. Now Im excited, the jetting was the last peice of the puzzle. I bought this sled a year ago and have nearly $1000 into it now. I gotta get it running! Ill feel better about the whole thing for sure after I ride it! Thank you!
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