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440/600 Conversion

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  #1  
Old 12-02-2010
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Default 440/600 Conversion

I think most of you guys know I'm not sticking with the 440 and I don't have the money for an 800 yet. So if anyone else out there wants to know the scoop about using a 600 HO top end on the 440HO (05+) cases here's some info and links to the info I've found.

You do not need to machine the cases, in fact you need to add a spacer.

My engine's parts;
600VES crankshaft
2007 440 HO crankcases
600 HO cylinder, pistons, exhaust valves
600 CFI head
TM38 Carbs
Stock 440 case reeds and most likely carb boots.

My 440 crank used a 122mm rods, the 600 crank has 128mm rods, this is a 6mm(0.236") difference to make up. The 600HO cylinder is also 0.100" taller than the 440, meaning now I only have to make up 0.136" with a metal spacer and gaskets from Cometic. (0.100 spacer, 0.022 gasket and 0.014 gasket)

600 crank in 440 cases
http://www.hardcoresledder.com/forum...440-cases.html

600HO head shaving(finding out how thick of a spacer I need)
http://www.hardcoresledder.com/forum...d-shaving.html
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  #2  
Old 12-02-2010
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Interesting, looking forward to the final product.
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  #3  
Old 12-02-2010
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there a difference in a ves crank and a HO crank?
600 cases hard to find? Just wondering as to why the parts mix? You come up with more power this way?
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  #4  
Old 12-02-2010
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Ok, I went to HC and read all that writing. Now I see what your truing to do.
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  #5  
Old 12-02-2010
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looks like a nice project. good luck on the build and let the photos begin
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  #6  
Old 12-02-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue avenger View Post
there a difference in a ves crank and a HO crank?
600 cases hard to find? Just wondering as to why the parts mix? You come up with more power this way?

Most small block twin 600 cranks are the same with slight exceptions. The VES engines used a slower waterpump, so you have to use a VES oil pump with a VES crank, HO oil pump with HO crank. Ho stuff is more expensive, and I already had the VES stuff. Plus I've already got the 440 cases, getting a set of HO cases would cost another $200-$300.
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  #7  
Old 12-03-2010
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so there is room in the case for the new larger piston?!! good deal, found a spot i forgot to machine on my case, rolled crank to watch piston go up and down. got a clunk instead. doh!
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  #8  
Old 12-03-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madcow View Post
so there is room in the case for the new larger piston?!! good deal, found a spot i forgot to machine on my case, rolled crank to watch piston go up and down. got a clunk instead. doh!
So far so good rolling it ever by hand. The newer 440 cases have a lot of room and have essentially the same dimensions as the 600HO cases, even use the same reeds.
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  #9  
Old 12-18-2010
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Getting anywhere?
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  #10  
Old 12-18-2010
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Putting the motor together wednesday, just need to find a pipe.
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  #11  
Old 12-19-2010
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hey i gotta 2005 440 sno pro.. but the motor is converted and its a 2006.. is the any nice sounding cans out there that i can put on it??
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  #12  
Old 12-20-2010
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  #13  
Old 01-04-2011
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With the holidays and everything the project fell a little behind. My Cometic base gaskets have been made and are in the mail, I found a pipe off a newer 600R and I got the bottom end together.


Parts breakdown;
600VES Crank
600VES Water pump shaft and turbine
600VES oil pump
600VES CDI
500VES carbs(TM 38's jetted to 600HO specs with Holztman ATACC)
440HO Crankcase
600HO Pistons
600HO Cylinders and valves
600HO Y-pipe
600CFI Head
600R Pipe/can

The funny thing is, after all this work, I'll either sell the sled next year or drop a 685 or 800HO into it
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  #14  
Old 01-04-2011
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You'll sell it next year and buy an RMK, but you'll get more than if you sold it this year. WTF is taking so long? You do realize the group ride is only a few weeks away? Don't be pulling any Dirty_Harry shit and bringing a broken sled for everyone to work on before we ride.
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Nobody on this site likes Ski Doo except Dirty Harry, and he's better at making babies than buying or fixing sleds, so you don't want to listen to him.
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  #15  
Old 01-04-2011
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Money and time has been holding things up a bit.
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  #16  
Old 01-04-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotmud View Post
You'll sell it next year and buy an RMK, but you'll get more than if you sold it this year. WTF is taking so long? You do realize the group ride is only a few weeks away? Don't be pulling any Dirty_Harry shit and bringing a broken sled for everyone to work on before we ride.
In my defense, someone assured me that bleeding the brakes was a cakewalk....

You cant put all the blame on me there....
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  #17  
Old 01-04-2011
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Good point. I blame Skidoo for having an inferior braking system.
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"Do not go where the path may LEAD, go instead where there is no path and leave a TRAIL"

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Nobody on this site likes Ski Doo except Dirty Harry, and he's better at making babies than buying or fixing sleds, so you don't want to listen to him.
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  #18  
Old 01-04-2011
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^^Gerbil found that out. We ended up dismantling absolutely every component of the whole caliper to get it to work again. He should have sent the sled to PartsMan444 after the brake locking fiasco... would have saved him one or two motor rebuilds before its inevitable resting place on the parting out bench.
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  #19  
Old 01-05-2011
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I did become a pro at bleeding the brakes on that thing prior to doing a complete brake rebuild to fix it.
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  #20  
Old 01-05-2011
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Getting things back on topic.....damn skidoo's ruin everything.....I could use all of the electronics from my 440, and I might, but I also found a decent deal on a 600VES CDI with wiring that I will probably use instead seeing as I already have a 600VES stator and flywheel from my donor engine.
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  #21  
Old 01-05-2011
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What's a decent deal for a CDI? I have an extra.
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  #22  
Old 01-05-2011
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$75, guess I shoulda asked you first, but I already paid for this one(ebay)
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  #23  
Old 01-05-2011
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I guess I still might need my extra. I was sucking coolant out of my motor with the shop vac, and I think it charged up everything with static electricity. My wiring harness was hanging there and it made a huge shocking arc crackle sound with a massive spark. I probably fried my whole electrical system, so I'll still need two of everything.
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  #24  
Old 01-05-2011
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lol, that's probably not good, but you should look into why it created an arc, that shop vac is supposed to be fully insulated.
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  #25  
Old 01-05-2011
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Vacuum cleaner wasn't even running anymore. In dry winter air, a vacuum cleaner produces tremendous amounts of static electricity. Sucking coolant out of an aluminum block seemed to be an ideal situation for maximum static buildup. Ever since I had a shop vac burst into flames after spraying WD-40 on a squeaky bearing, I've kept my shop vacs in good working order.
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