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What is wrong?

Tuning

 
 
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  #1  
Old 02-08-2008
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Default What is wrong?

I've said since I got the dragon that the rxl would feed it snow. I took the rxl for a 35 mile ride last night and kept wondering why the hell the dragon won't hang ten like the rxl. Is it the difference in where a triple makes power versus where a twin makes the power?
RXL 1.75:1 gearing 125hp same 136" ripsaw as the dragon.
Dragon 1.82:1 gearing 145hp 136" ripsaw.
How is it that the dragon would eat snow? Is it the clutching or the engine differences? Overall when factoring in the suspension and literally everything the dragon kicks ass, except when you want to race. I'm kinda lost as to why the rxl is faster in a short 10 second squeeze of the go stick, as well as a mile down the road. I'd like to hear some serious input here guys. The whole time I was riding the rxl last night I found myself wondering how I could stuff an ultra engine in the dragon lol.
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  #2  
Old 02-08-2008
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I just talked to a buddy, he'll be over tomorrow. We're gonna line em up and see if it's in my head or not. I'm pretty sure my buddy is gonna spank my new sled with my old sled lol.
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  #3  
Old 02-08-2008
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Don't feel bad mud.

My Hubby gets the same feeling with the 900 Switch vs Ugly Betty. lol

I have no clue about clutching/gearing, eating snow or hangin ten, lol. But it seems the twins of today share this same scenario up against the monsters of the 90's.

??
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  #4  
Old 02-08-2008
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I was looking at the slp 777 bb kit. For the money I could easily find a bad ass triple to squeeze in there, now that would make a dragon. I'll bet I could even cfi an ultra engine for close to the same price as a bb kit.


WTF why can't I just leave well enough alone. When I was a kid my dad tried very hard to teach me the ole phrase " If it aint broke, don't fix it", someday maybe I'll learn that lol.
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  #5  
Old 02-08-2008
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New Phrase:

"If it ain't broke...........fuck with it till it is"

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  #6  
Old 02-08-2008
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^^ lmao I can't believe I never thought of that. Wait until the next time we're talking about toys and he says that.
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  #7  
Old 02-08-2008
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Well.......the video in this post says it all!! :laugh:

http://slednutz.com/showthread.php?t...etting+it+done
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  #8  
Old 02-08-2008
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lmao that's right
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"Do not go where the path may LEAD, go instead where there is no path and leave a TRAIL"

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Nobody on this site likes Ski Doo except Dirty Harry, and he's better at making babies than buying or fixing sleds, so you don't want to listen to him.
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  #9  
Old 02-08-2008
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lots of people say that about the new chassis. ditch banger traded up from his prox800 to a dragon. loves the dragon in every aspect except for speed.
one thing to remember is there is nothing faster than an indy chassis.
zrx pilot raced riley with his 700 xc in a gen 2 frame and lost by a little bit. put the same motor, gearing and clutching into the indy frame, and now beats riley.

its about the track angles. how much does the track have to bend coming off the drivers on the two sleds. the rxl is low to the ground, the track comes pretty straight off of the drivers and down the trails. the dragon the track comes to the rail tips, then drug down,, bends along the rail.

the dragon is tall look at the air moving around the dragon. frontal area compared to the indy is huge.
the indy also has a good clutch. I wish you could come to pauls cabin with that thing. I would be fun to do a base line radar run. then switch to a button clutch and start tunning the secondary to dial in the rpms. and see what happens. as long as you dont have perc. and the jack shaft is still the same size.

if you sucked up the front limiter straps and rear limiter straps on the rear skid, drop the front down as well. then try it.

another thing is track tension. one guy on hcs gained 4 mph by loosining his track from the stock setting a little bit.
i wouldnt worry to much right now. we will figure out a setup.
oh, and dont ever forget

NOTHING GOES LIKE 3 HOLES BROTHER


on a side note, can you take a magic marker. and put a big fat line on the inside of the primary clutch, make it about 2 inches wide with permanent marker. then go do a 1/4 mile pull. do it on hard pack. if need be run over the path several times at a slower pace to pack it down. then run it. let us know how far on shift out you are going. and if you can atleast look at the speedo, gps would be better but we can work off of gearing, rpm, amount of shift and speedo readings.
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  #10  
Old 02-08-2008
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just get you fat ass up to da up this weekend and line up against the sks LOL. that'll give ya a good indication of where your at :p
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  #11  
Old 02-08-2008
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Hold it......This story isnt exactly like it is written. I ran Riley last year with my Gen 11 xc in 6"-8" of powder up his lake and Riley took me with no doubt. Riley a 1.25 with a 136, he on paper should have taken the victor by design and he did just that (albeit by a narrower margin than anticipated) This year was a different story. It was in fact a different frame with the entire drivetrain switched over identical. However, this year we were running flat out, side by side on a flat groomed trail for well over a mile. The 121" with a ripsaw had the luxury of less mass therefore not a fair comparison. My sled on paper was supposed to be the victor. Either that or I am missing something.

Conclusion:

I cannot say with justification that I beat Riley in this arena. Fact is I was supposed to by design as both of us were riding near identical maintained machines and my sled was set up for the environment. The only advantage Riley had was another 6-10 hp max due to properly researched and installed modifications. His sled is also geared differently. I take the win as a win (how many guys beat Riley?, not many) as I consider Riley a heavy contender as I do Madcow but can I say the new frame gave me the edge? No I cannot. I would like to think so but I cant.

The only way to confirm this would be for Riley to swap his 136 for a 121 or for me to longtrack. Neither is going to happen.

The flipside? The skinny no-nothing gave Riley a good run on stock polaris parts. In my mind, I achieved greatness. No v-force reeds, no fancy pipes, no fancy clutching, nada, zip, nothing. Just my own tuning and maintainence ran with the legendary Riley.

Who won?
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  #12  
Old 02-08-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madcow View Post
on a side note, can you take a magic marker. and put a big fat line on the inside of the primary clutch, make it about 2 inches wide with permanent marker. then go do a 1/4 mile pull. do it on hard pack. if need be run over the path several times at a slower pace to pack it down. then run it. let us know how far on shift out you are going. and if you can atleast look at the speedo, gps would be better but we can work off of gearing, rpm, amount of shift and speedo readings.
I'll try that this weekend.
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"Do not go where the path may LEAD, go instead where there is no path and leave a TRAIL"

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Nobody on this site likes Ski Doo except Dirty Harry, and he's better at making babies than buying or fixing sleds, so you don't want to listen to him.
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  #13  
Old 02-09-2008
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THANK YOU GOTMUD!!!!!!!!

This is the point I've been arguing for damn near 3 years now!! Not since about 97 has there been a twin and triple in the same chassis (the 97 wedge 700XC and the Ultra) people always want to compare a twin in the wedge chassis to a triple in the aggressive chassis, or a Gen II to an agressive or an edge twin to a GenII triple, I find it funny that there was never a twin in the aggressive or a triple in the edge chassis!! The argument I've been makin is for a triple IQ platform compared next to a twin IQ, I can gaurantee ya that the triple would be back in a heart beat!!! The other argument I've been makin is that the wedge chassis will more than hold it's own on ANY groomed trail compaired to todays twins for the simple fact that the X-tra 10 sits damn near 3-4 inches lower to the ground than todays sleds built for snocross!! All moving the engine further back into the chassis on todays sleds did was change how heavy they are in the nose it did NOTHING to change weight from one side of the sled to another, BUT by adding 3-4 (or more) of suspension they actually took away from how it will handle in a tight corner!!! Heres a good example, how low does a Nascar sit?? do you think a Nascar could take a tight corner on a road track if it sat 3-4 inches higher?? the same principal applies to sleds!! Anyways Rant done!!

I want to be just like mud if/when I grow up!!!!!!!
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  #14  
Old 02-09-2008
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Originally Posted by Ultrastud View Post
THANK YOU GOTMUD!!!!!!!!

This is the point I've been arguing for damn near 3 years now!! Not since about 97 has there been a twin and triple in the same chassis (the 97 wedge 700XC and the Ultra) people always want to compare a twin in the wedge chassis to a triple in the aggressive chassis, or a Gen II to an agressive or an edge twin to a GenII triple, I find it funny that there was never a twin in the aggressive or a triple in the edge chassis!! The argument I've been makin is for a triple IQ platform compared next to a twin IQ, I can gaurantee ya that the triple would be back in a heart beat!!! The other argument I've been makin is that the wedge chassis will more than hold it's own on ANY groomed trail compaired to todays twins for the simple fact that the X-tra 10 sits damn near 3-4 inches lower to the ground than todays sleds built for snocross!! All moving the engine further back into the chassis on todays sleds did was change how heavy they are in the nose it did NOTHING to change weight from one side of the sled to another, BUT by adding 3-4 (or more) of suspension they actually took away from how it will handle in a tight corner!!! Heres a good example, how low does a Nascar sit?? do you think a Nascar could take a tight corner on a road track if it sat 3-4 inches higher?? the same principal applies to sleds!! Anyways Rant done!!

I want to be just like mud if/when I grow up!!!!!!!
Disagree on bold postion above, that 3 - 4" on a NASCAR would allow more air under car body resulting in less downforce on suspension. On a sled it would be more of lifting center-of-gravity.

BTW a buddie of mine is currently putting a triple in an Edge chassis. Of course it's a BB PSI going in a Mtn. sled, but it's done a lot up in this area.
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  #15  
Old 02-09-2008
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Mud, who cares how fast your sled is? Save the money and take more trips to big snow country. Take the money for the 770 kit and come ride with me in Island Park. Take another 2 or 3 trips to the U.P. Put a new Camoplast Cobra on that Dragon, gear down a couple teeth, dial in the clutching, and ride the damn thing! Unless you're just concerned about dragracing, don't worry about how fast your sled is.

Last edited by Rubi : 02-09-2008 at 01:46 AM.
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  #16  
Old 02-09-2008
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^^
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  #17  
Old 02-09-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertical_Escape View Post
Disagree on bold postion above, that 3 - 4" on a NASCAR would allow more air under car body resulting in less downforce on suspension. On a sled it would be more of lifting center-of-gravity.

BTW a buddie of mine is currently putting a triple in an Edge chassis. Of course it's a BB PSI going in a Mtn. sled, but it's done a lot up in this area.
That was my point vert!! the way todays "snocross" sleds are built the center of gravity sits so much higher than the sleds of "yesterday". The point I was trying to make is this.....when I was driving truck I could take an off ramp ( the kind that curves back around under the exit) at 25 MPH with a load of flat steel that weighed 48,000 lbs but was only about a foot high on the deck of my flatbed, with a load of lumber that weighed 30,000 lbs but was 8 feet high, that same exit became about a 15 MPH ramp!!!

when your buddy gets the triple edge built you'll have to post a pic or vid!!!!
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  #18  
Old 02-09-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi View Post
Mud, who cares how fast your sled is? Save the money and take more trips to big snow country. Take the money for the 770 kit and come ride with me in Island Park. Take another 2 or 3 trips to the U.P. Put a new Camoplast Cobra on that Dragon, gear down a couple teeth, dial in the clutching, and ride the damn thing! Unless you're just concerned about dragracing, don't worry about how fast your sled is.


Amen Brutha
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  #19  
Old 02-09-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi View Post
Mud, who cares how fast your sled is? Save the money and take more trips to big snow country. Take the money for the 770 kit and come ride with me in Island Park. Take another 2 or 3 trips to the U.P. Put a new Camoplast Cobra on that Dragon, gear down a couple teeth, dial in the clutching, and ride the damn thing! Unless you're just concerned about dragracing, don't worry about how fast your sled is.
Well put rubi!

Considering the big picture the dragon just can't be beat. It may not be a drag racing machine but capable of anything I want it to do. I'll be dragging the rxl today though, can't wait to run em.
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Nobody on this site likes Ski Doo except Dirty Harry, and he's better at making babies than buying or fixing sleds, so you don't want to listen to him.
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  #20  
Old 02-09-2008
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another thing is that i am going to assume is that the track on the rxl has some miles on it. a broken in track is worth a couple mph right there. a track a little on the sloppy side is worth a couple mph. give your new machine a thousand miles to get broke in.
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nothing goes like 3 holes.

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  #21  
Old 02-11-2008
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What was the outcome? Hell have you even been on today Rich?
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  #22  
Old 02-11-2008
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The guy that was gonna come ride with me said it was too cold. It was friggin cold yesterday and the wind was unreal. Visibility was shit and I turned around and went home after about 1.5 hrs. I did race a friends mxz 600 but that wasn't much of a race lol. Hopefully he gets the sand out and is ready to ride soon. Snow is awesome right now with plenty in the forcast.
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"Do not go where the path may LEAD, go instead where there is no path and leave a TRAIL"

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Nobody on this site likes Ski Doo except Dirty Harry, and he's better at making babies than buying or fixing sleds, so you don't want to listen to him.
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  #23  
Old 02-11-2008
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Weekend ride?
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  #24  
Old 02-12-2008
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Shit yeah we have plenty of snow. The mxz is trailering to my house saturday. Shane will be riding along but that doesn't stop me from doing much lol.
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"Do not go where the path may LEAD, go instead where there is no path and leave a TRAIL"

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  #25  
Old 02-12-2008
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Who has/rides the MXZ?
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